Project Oni
Game Owner
 Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
From: Chicagoland |
 Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 05:16PM |
Anybody know if some of the martial styles in Jade Empire are based on real Chinese martial arts? Is White Demon based on any particular gung fu? Thousand Cuts, maybe?
Of course, the weapon styles seem genuinely Chinese, but I'm speaking specifically of the martial and support styles. These must have some aspects borrowed from the many Chinese gung-fus.
Leaping Tiger seems to have taken some principles and techniques from kenpo, save for the claws. |
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Amberyl Ravenclaw
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 NWN
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Jade Empire:SE
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Mass Effect PC
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
From: MA, USA |
Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 05:29PM |
There's a topic here that may be kind of what you're looking for.
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Project Oni
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
From: Chicagoland |
Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 05:33PM |
Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.
edit: Hm, not cool -- the thread has been inactive for a while, and so I can't post in there. That was really buried in here, eh?Edited By Project Oni on 09/13/09 17:37 |
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Amberyl Ravenclaw
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Joined: 06 Dec 2003
From: MA, USA |
Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 05:38PM |
But to be honest, as a layman and student of Chinese culture I see many elements of Jade Empire, including the martial styles, as a kind of inspired mix-and-match rather than being strict copies (which is not necessarily a bad thing, otherwise the more fanciful and historically inaccurate elements would've been thrown out of the window, of course, and leave little room for enjoyment). Some people in the other thread have expressed some confusion / annoyance at the muddling of actual weapon techniques and whatnot. I'm inclined to think that the same sort of thinking went into the naming of the martial styles, etc. To my limited knowledge 'white demon' can popularly refer to a spirit monster in the popular literary Chinese epic Journey to the West, capable of assuming human form to trick the heroes (which led me to think that it ought to be a transformation rather than martial style). 'Thousand Cuts', meanwhile, is the name of a Chinese execution technique that was slow and torturous, not quick and deadly like its JE naming would suggest. I'm not accusing the developers of anything, but a fairly liberal interpretation of many Chinese/East Asian elements exist in JE, which is quite interesting in itself. Just for info's sake though. 
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Project Oni
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
From: Chicagoland |
Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 05:41PM |
Quote: Posted 09/13/09 17:38 (GMT) by Amberyl Ravenclaw
To my limited knowledge 'white demon' can popularly refer to a spirit monster in the popular literary Chinese epic Journey to the West, capable of assuming human form to trick the heroes (which led me to think that it ought to be a transformation rather than martial style).
Interesting, I must read this 'Journey to the West.'
Quote: 'Thousand Cuts', meanwhile, is the name of a Chinese execution technique that was slow and torturous, not quick and deadly like its JE naming would suggest.
Funny. The slow and torturous method sounds like it'd make more sense with a name like 'Thousand Cuts'. Imagine a thousand paper cuts littering your skin, yet none of them being fatal. |
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Amberyl Ravenclaw
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Joined: 06 Dec 2003
From: MA, USA |
Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 05:49PM |
Quote: Posted 09/13/09 17:41 (GMT) by Project Oni Quote: Posted 09/13/09 17:38 (GMT) by Amberyl Ravenclaw
To my limited knowledge 'white demon' can popularly refer to a spirit monster in the popular literary Chinese epic Journey to the West, capable of assuming human form to trick the heroes (which led me to think that it ought to be a transformation rather than martial style).
Interesting, I must read this 'Journey to the West.'
Definitely. It's one of the 'Four Great Classics' in Chinese popular culture that's still very well-known and loved today. It's part fantasy epic, part hero's journey, part spiritual treatise (the main overarching quest, the 'journey to the west' involves retrieving holy Buddhist scriptures from a legendary paradise), and incorporates myths, fantasy, religious beliefs and adventure all in one setting. You don't really have to read it all in one sitting either, because the individual story threads (the birth, rise and fall of the main hero, his early journeys and encounters with the celestial bureaucracy, his later quest, his companions, the various random encounters on the way) are fascinating enough to make good reading on their own. The 'white bone demon' is just one of the many monsters that the heroes run into, btw; there are even crazier ones out there. Do get it if you can; and of course, there are various TV/film interpretations too.
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caradoc2000
Game Owner
 NWN
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Joined: 15 Jul 2005 |
Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 07:10PM |
Quote: Posted 09/13/09 17:49 (GMT) by Amberyl Ravenclaw
Definitely. It's one of the 'Four Great Classics' in Chinese popular culture that's still very well-known and loved today.
Yep. Those are available online as well. More information can be found, for example, here.Edited By caradoc2000 on 09/13/09 19:10 |
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Project Oni
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
From: Chicagoland |
Posted: Sunday, 13 September 2009 07:54PM |
Speaking of Chinese classics bleeding into Jade Empire, the only classic I've touched on is Romance of the Three Kingdoms. And yes, every time I revisit Jade Empire, I can't stop my mind from making possible connections. My conclusions might not even be entirely accurate, but it's always fun nonetheless.
Heh, this thread certainly took an unexpected turn.
I can't think of any Chinese martial arts that are almost entirely based on kicks a la Legendary Strike in JE. There is tae kwon do, which is Korean, but... ehhh... |
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Amberyl Ravenclaw
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Joined: 06 Dec 2003
From: MA, USA |
Posted: Monday, 14 September 2009 01:42AM |
Yeah, it's fun to make those connections, especially when tracing the cultural elements in Jade Empire to their original sources. Jade Empire really is a mash-up of everything from wuxia novels/martial arts to classic fiction to actual arts and culture to history (the making of early 'China' and the rise and fall of the First Emperor Qin Shi Huang). There's also a distinct Biowarian flavor and the conventional RPG structure according to Campbell's treatise on the hero's journey. Plenty of inaccuracies and some hilarious moments (at least for someone familiar with East Asian history and culture) as well, but those won't be so obvious to others. It'll be interesting to continue this discussion, if you so please.
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Project Oni
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
From: Chicagoland |
Posted: Monday, 14 September 2009 03:41AM |
Quote: It'll be interesting to continue this discussion, if you so please.
I assume you're pretty familiar with Romance of the Three Kingdoms? I know the Black Whirlwind kind of fits into a typecast, but isn't his design a nearly perfect Zhang Fei? Maybe not the twin butcher knives, but hey, Zhang Fei was a butcher before he began his military career.Edited By Project Oni on 09/14/09 04:01 |
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Amberyl Ravenclaw
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Joined: 06 Dec 2003
From: MA, USA |
Posted: Monday, 14 September 2009 03:54AM |
Quote: Posted 09/14/09 03:41 (GMT) by Project Oni
I assume you're pretty familiar with Romance of the Three Kingdoms? I know the Black Whirlwind kind of fits into a typecast, but he is a nearly perfect Zhang Fei. Give him a snake-blade spear, and he's ready to go.
Indeed, although I think he's more directly drawn from the character of Li Kui in another of the Four Great Classics, Water Margin which is about a bunch of outlaws against the government which doesn't have a very happy ending. Li Kui has the double-axe thing, the fiery temperament and even the moniker 'Black Whirlwind' itself. But as you said, there are often many different sources and archetypes available to pull from.
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Project Oni
Game Owner
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
From: Chicagoland |
Posted: Monday, 14 September 2009 04:04AM |
Paralyzing Palm... this support style must be based on Cheng-style Bagua. Not just because of the palm strikes, but the motions seem similar as well. Only the player can force the circular movement, though.
Quote: Posted 09/14/09 03:54 (GMT) by Amberyl Ravenclaw Indeed, although I think he's more directly drawn from the character of Li Kui in another of the Four Great Classics, Water Margin which is about a bunch of outlaws against the government which doesn't have a very happy ending. Li Kui has the double-axe thing, the fiery temperament and even the moniker 'Black Whirlwind' itself. But as you said, there are often many different sources and archetypes available to pull from.
Wow, that's spot on. How about the alcoholism? Well, really, I guess the description you already provided would suggest as much. |
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Iron Weasel
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
From: Montreal, Canada |
Posted: Wednesday, 07 October 2009 01:35PM |
If you're interested in reasding books that helped inspire the world of Jade Empire, you might check out Barry Hughart's The Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox. While by no means a classic piece of Chinese literature, the stories of "an ancient China that never was" have many parallels with JE. Plus, they're great fun to read!
edit: I deleted a double-post by Oni
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