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World of Jade Empire
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Loneyg
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR PC
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
From: Poland |
 Posted: Sunday, 04 March 2007 09:06PM |
I have a few questions about world of Jade Empire.Since i played Jade Empire on xbox very little, i couldn't answer my self.
1.Which period of China's history is Jade Empire based on?I know there's John C.'s Outlander, but what about the rest?
2.Is there a religion in Jade Empire?And if there is any, on what chinese religion it's based?
3.Is anything from jade empire main quest based on china's history or mythology ?
thx for answers  | 
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Quezcotl
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 SW: KotOR Xbox
NWN 2
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
From: Sweden,Stockholm |
Posted: Sunday, 04 March 2007 09:08PM |
I think they took the whole god thing from the Japanese dynasty.
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My XBL GT is "QUEZCOTL". | |
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Chrominium
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Joined: 07 Oct 2002 |
Posted: Sunday, 04 March 2007 11:49PM |
Quote: Posted 03/04/07 21:08 (GMT) by Quezcotl
I think they took the whole god thing from the Japanese dynasty.
Some of it is Chinese I'm sure. I don't know much about Japanese myth, but the horse and fox spirit can be of Chinese original. | |
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EarX-2
Game Owner
 Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 12:09AM |
Quote: 1.Which period of China's history is Jade Empire based on?I know there's John C.'s Outlander, but what about the rest?
Early Qing dynasty? Lots of Manchu hair styles and clothing running around at least. Then again, Furious Ming's gel-top would suggest present day so I guess the fashion isn't much to base any assumptions on. | |
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warcry111
Game Owner
 Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 |
Posted: Monday, 12 March 2007 11:38AM |
Quote: Posted 03/04/07 21:06 (GMT) by Loneyg
I have a few questions about world of Jade Empire.Since i played Jade Empire on xbox very little, i couldn't answer my self.
1.Which period of China's history is Jade Empire based on?I know there's John C.'s Outlander, but what about the rest?
1. As Jade Empire is a fantasy game and not historically based, it is not based on any part of China's history. The clothes, hairstyles, everything, etc. are totally out of place and time, so there can be nothing said about the period of "Jade Empire". For all we know, the setting of Jade Empire isn't even on planet Earth, but on some galaxy far far away. Some people's hairstyles, such as Lu the Prodigy, or Furious Ming suggest that they simply resemble Republican era Chinese, ie 1920's, which is a modern period of Chinese history (although there are a few hairstyles that resemble the queue of the Qing era and the hairstyles of the scholars and officials resemble Ming era hairstyles). The names are also nothing uniquely Chinese, but simply Western Orientalist names. However, if we just look at the architecture (forgetting the Zhou-era bronze bells that are also totally out of place and time) and some of the elements and concepts of the main storyline, I'd probably say that there can be certain parallels drawn between Jade Empire and Ming era China (1368-1644 AD), arguably the most corrupt period in Chinese history with the largest number of incompetent emperors even though civil war was rare during this period. However, the parallels are individual, ie none of them all together resemble any specific time in the Ming period. Anyway, parallels include:
Lotus Assassins -
Corrupt, merciless, crude, efficient - resembles the Ming secret police, the Jinyiwei/"Brocade Uniform Brigade". They were set up by the first Ming emperor Zhu Yuanzhang in 1382 AD as personal bodyguards. They were also corrupt, caught tons of innocent people, and basically terrorized the empire. Later decimated by eunuchs (they became pawns of the eunuchs who monopolized power later on). If the Lotus Assassins would remove the terrible-looking fantasy armor and the dead looks on their faces and put on real Chinese Ming-era (14th-17th centuries) armor instead and if Master Li was a court eunuch rather than an unrealistic fantasy "Kung Fu" master/"strategist"/brother of the Emperor, the Lotus Assassins could be officially changed into "Jinyi Wei" in-game. The Jinyi Wei was only unique to the Ming period, and similar organizations seems to have never existed in other periods of Chinese history before or after; it is a sign of the paranoia and uncouth ruthlessness of the peasant-turned emperor Zhu Yuanzhang, the first emperor of the Ming. In later times, there was the Xi Chang, which was also like the Jinyi Wei and acted like a spy agency; it was first established by the Chenghua emperor during the mid-late 15th century and was, for the Ming emperors, the successor to the Jinyi Wei since the Jinyi Wei was now controlled by eunuchs instead of emperors, the emperors now had the Xi Chang.
Jade empire citizens work on their "wall" -
Resembles the Ming period work on the Great Wall. The Ming period was probably the time when construction on the Great Wall was most intense. Actually, much of what we see today as the Great Wall was actually constructed sometime during the 1500's during the Ming period due to the increased threat of the Mongols and Manchus.
Horselords -
Obviously the Mongols.
Dirge -
Llhasa, Tibet.
Spirit Monks -
Tibetan Buddhist monks.
Sir Roderick von ....whatever (the Outlander) -
Resembles probably any old seafaring 16th century Westerner (mainly, Portuguese, Dutch, and Spanish) who made their way to Ming era China (though for very different purposes than Sir Roderick). This makes it even more likely that Jade Empire superficially resembles Ming China the most since Sir Roderic clearly was not in any position of power, and Westerners were not able to defeat China in a war until the mid 19th century while Westerners during the Ming period had only just arrived in Ming China, with their military technology only a tiny bit ahead than the Ming (unlike the 19th century where Western military technology was clearly far ahead). The first Westerners to officially arrive in China and make a noticeable presence were the Portuguese who I believe first made it there in the early 1500's (1514 AD). Ming defeated the Portuguese in a short war 1521-1522 AD. The Spanish, thinking that Ming China might be as easily conquered as the Native Americans, proposed clans to conquer Ming China, but quickly dropped the fantasy and were actually on the defensive when Ming remnant prince Zheng Chenggong (the Portuguese called him "Koxinga", his Japanese name was "Tei Seiko" since his mother was Japanese) drove the Dutch out of Taiwan and intended to conquer Manila and drive out the Spanish right before his death (the Spanish were actually alarmed and garrisoned more troops to defend Manila). While the Jade Empire scholars and philosophers are shown to have not given a damn about the Mirabelle, Ming China, on the other hand, took a very opposite stance in regards to Western firearms technology. Even before the Portuguese arrived in 1514, Ming forces stationed in the northwest, near East Turkestan, had already acquired Ottoman matchlock muskets from fighting Turfanese Muslim rebels who had been supplied by the Ottomans. When the Portuguese came, the Ming also adopted matchlock muskets from them as well. Finally, in the mid 1500's, military forces in the rest of China also adopted Japanese matchlock musket, from fighting Wokou (a mix of Chinese and Japanese pirates armed with Japanese arms and armor). Ming period military manuals ranked the efficiency and power of the different kinds of matchlock muskets in the following order, from best to worst: 1. Ottoman, 2. Portuguese/Western, 3. Wokou and illustrated the different positions required for the different types of muskets. Entire military units of firearms squads such as the Shen Ji Jun (Divine Machine Brigade) existed among the Ming military forces. The Ming also actively employed the service of Jesuits to help them build cannons, and this continued during the Qing period.
Emperor Sun Hai -
He doesn't really resemble just any one Ming emperor, but parts of him resemble some Ming emperors. For example, Sun Hai's desire for immortality (draining the Water Dragon's power to become a god), even at the cost of security in the empire, closely resembles the attitude of the Jiajing Emperor (1507-1567). The Jiajing emperor was cruel, boastful, ignored state affairs and was infatuated with young women and Daoist alchemy, all resembling Sun Hai (except the young women part). In Jade Empire, Sun Hai was also said to have ruled pretty good before the Drought, and after he was draining the Water Dragon's power, he left state affairs to Death's Hand and the Lotus Assassins and stayed in his floating palace for a long period of time without seeing any of his servants, etc. In this respect, he closely resembles in real history the Wanli Emperor (1563-1620). Wanli's early years on the throne saw a period of economic prosperity and increased military strength and was one of the great periods of Ming history but; during this time, he would attend every morning to discuss state affairs with his ministers. During Wanli's reign, he fought 3 successful wars against enemy polities: 1. against the Mongols, 2. against Toyotomi Hideyoshi of Japan who wanted to invade the Ming via Korea, the Imjin War 1592-1598, 3. Yang Yin Long rebellion. After these 3 wars, for 20 years until his death in 1620, Wanli did not once attend court, but became lazy and ignorant, leading to the gradual decline and eventual downfall of the Ming empire.
Master Li -
This treacherous and manipulating old man, in just about every way possible, resembles a corrupt court eunuch of the Ming dynasty. He is manipulating and greedy, controls Death's Hand and the Lotus Assassins - akin to court eunuchs controlling the Jinyi Wei or later Ming emperors controlling the Xi Chang. If only Master Li could remove his ugly armor, cut off his dick and balls, severe his blood relations to Sun Hai, remove his dumb and unrealistic "humble Kung Fu master" status, and put on some Ming-era eunuch clothes, he would be fit to be a Ming-era court eunuch, resembling the corrupt eunuch Liu Jin who died in 1510 but only after he took advantage of the lazy Zhengde emperor (1491-1521) and intended to murder Zhengde so as to place his own grandnephew on the throne (which would allow him to control everything).
That's all I can think of right now. General parallels.Edited By warcry111 on 03/12/07 11:47 | |
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Scott Meadows
Senior Programmer
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
From: The Depths |
Posted: Monday, 12 March 2007 04:47PM |
This now contains major spoilers and will be moved...
thx
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It will be done when it is done. | |
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warcry111
Game Owner
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 |
Posted: Monday, 12 March 2007 09:20PM |
Quote: Posted 03/04/07 21:06 (GMT) by Loneyg
2.Is there a religion in Jade Empire?And if there is any, on what chinese religion it's based?
IIRC, some scrollstand said that the Jade Empire was founded on the teachings and philosophy of "Lao Tsi". A very obvious allusion to the real "Lao Tzu"/Lao Zi (6th-4th centuries BC), the founder of Daoist philosophy (it later became a religion and, in late imperial China, some of its ideas and concepts became part of the larger folk culture of the everyday common folk). It is not based on any part of Chinese history since Daoism never officially gained full imperial favor during any part of Chinese history for an extended period of time and no dynasty was ever founded on Daoism alone. There were certain periods in Chinese history were Daoism was able to gain influence among court circles, but it was brief and tiny and usually occurred during times where the political and social order was in chaos and civil war was common (3rd century AD, like among the "Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove" group, also a brief period in the court of the northern dynasties in the 5th century AD); during those times, Daoism, along with Buddhism imported from India, was seen as a fitting philosophy for officials adhering to an escapist philosophy, who were eventually disillusioned and disgusted by the intense civil strife, and gruesome and treacherous political intrigues and bickering and resigned from their posts as ministers, generals, commanders, etc., but they constituted only a small minority of the government. The only exception to this model was the brief period in the early part of the Western Han (206 BC - 9 AD) when the Huang Lao school of Daoism was prominent (but later Han Wudi, the Martial/Militaristic Emperor of Han, installed Confucianism as the official state ideology) during a period of relative stability.Edited By warcry111 on 03/12/07 21:27 | |
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Rahl Windsong
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
From: Athiria |
Posted: Tuesday, 13 March 2007 06:36PM | |
When I saw the title for this post I thought finally! Bioware has announced what the MMO is they are working on....The World of Jade Empire! But somehow WoJ just don't sound right...hummn.. | |
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EarX-2
Game Owner
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 |
Posted: Tuesday, 13 March 2007 07:07PM | |
That's some detailed insight into Chinese history you got there, and nice parallells to the story in JE. I thought Sun Hai was just a loose base on Qin Shi Huang. Edited By EarX-2 on 03/13/07 19:09 | |
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warcry111
Game Owner
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 |
Posted: Tuesday, 13 March 2007 08:21PM |
Quote: Posted 03/13/07 19:07 (GMT) by EarX-2
I thought Sun Hai was just a loose base on Qin Shi Huang.
Hmm...the only similarity I could come up regarding Qin Shi Huang and Sun Hai was both their desires for longevity and immortality, though Sun Hai in this case seems to have taken it to extremes and the desire for longevity and immortality was not only confined to the likes of Qin Shi Huang but to many Chinese emperors or, for that matter, to many kings of Europe or caliphs/sultans/shahs of the Middle East. Besides that, everything else about them and the empire they ruled were vastly different.
To me, it seemed like Sun Hai was just any average emperor who basically got more muddle-headed as he grew older and older, and after he attacked Dirge and took the Water Dragon's power, he became a full-fledged lousy emperor; his only accomplishment was shortening the Drought by attacking Dirge and nothing else. On the other hand, Qin Shi Huang was straight up militaristic and progressively efficient, from the beginnings of his reign to his very death in 210 BC; from conquering the 6 other major nations (Zhao, Yan, Qi, Chu, Haan, Wei - this had the effect of greatly strengthening and centralizing imperial power since the old aristocratic chariot-riding warrior elites of the other nations were largely obliterated, thereby greatly decreasing the chances of rebellion and also allowing for the establishment of a military meritocracy now that the military was not the extensive domain of aristocratic warriors alone) of the Warring States and uniting the Central Plains to sending out 300,000 Qin soldiers under Meng Tian to drive out the Yuezhi (Rong) and Xiongnu (Di) nomads from the Ordos/Inner Mongolia region to sending his armies as far south as modern-day Canton and conquering the Baiyue ("Hundred Yue") people there (at the time, the Baiyue people and Canton weren't "Chinese") to standardizing the script and currency of the Central Plains and creating an efficient civil bureaucracy. Nothing Sun Hai could ever dream of matching. At best, Sun Hai resembled the Wanli emperor of the Ming. | |
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warcry111
Game Owner
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 |
Posted: Tuesday, 13 March 2007 08:37PM | |
Also, the Bronze Golems seem to have been almost carbon copies of the terracotta army soldiers of Qin Shi Huang's mausoleum. Also, the armour and attire of a large part of the soldiers and commanders (like Captain Sen) of Jade Empire seems also to have been merely humanized (ie, given color and Western Orientalist faces) forms of Qin Shi Huang's terracotta soldiers, while some of the guards (like the guards at the Scholar's Garden) seem to be wearing generic Ming-era armour, a time span between the two styles (Qin and Ming) being over 1500 years. OTOH, Jade Golems look more like The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion's centurion commanders than anything "Chinese". | |
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